Narrativist Framework Debating

Debating Narrativists:

I would like to explain what "If at first you don't succeed, try, try again" means to a Narrativist. When defeated, what a Narrativist does is try to do the exact same thing again, but to invest themselves more emotionally in the outcome. Narrativists believe that the reason for their failure is almost always not being motivated enough/trying hard enough, and their answer is always to try and whip themselves up into a bigger frenzy next time. They are following the Grand Narrative and the Grand Narrative always says that if you lose it's because you didn't work hard enough.

In practice, this means every defeat will only make them more strident, more aggressive, and more shrill as time goes on.

The only method I have had success with isn't very pretty, but it does work (in the long run). You basically have to figure out what the Inner Narrative is, and then attack that. Then, when they lose their mind, remain calm no matter what. If there is any hope for them, they will later apologize and may have some introspection/guilt over their temper that leads them to develop a bit. Beyond that, you are arguing with a brick. (I'm not saying this is the only/best way, but it is the only method I personally know of that has even a tiny track record of success.)

This all works best if you have the debate in public, where their inevitable overreaction is witnessed by enough people that they can't just later deny it to themselves.

Honestly, I might be the wrong person to ask, because I don't know a gentle or polite way to do this. Narrativists occasionally move past the behavior pattern on their own if they are introduced to new information in a non-threatening manner, and you can also occasionally reach out to one in private. In public, however, the only thing I know how to do is provoke them into surfacing their inner narrative and let them suffer social consequences for it. But this requires a ton of personal inside knowledge and is, frankly, more than a touch manipulative.

In my personal experience during my time as a Narrativist, there are moments when you get hit with a stunning burst of narrative dysphoria. That is, some element of your Inner Narrative is publicly and profoundly disproven. This experience is akin to an identity crisis to a Narrativist and is incredibly unpleasent. It often leaves the Narrativist with only two options, either to (A) begin the process of shedding their inner narrative and leaving their delusions behind, or (B) retreating even deeper into the inner narrative, embracing it publicly, and pretending the burst of narrative dysphoria never happened. A surprising number of Narrativists will take option A in that situation (I have personally known over a dozen Narrativists that deprogrammed themselves over a period of years), but the majority will take option B.

If this burst of narrative dysphoria happens to occur at the same time that the Narrativist is on the losing end of a compaction cycle, then the ratios actually reverse a bit. More Narrativists will choose to leave behind the inner narrative than continue to cling to it in that particular situation. In my experience, having a group of deluded morons that you thought were your friends throw you out of their weird little group over some imaginary bullshit is enough to snap most Narrativists out of it.

It is not, however, enough to snap every Narrativist out of it. Some Narrativists in that situation (burst of Narrative dysphoria + losing end of a compaction cycle) will retreat deep, deep into the protective delusions of their inner narrative. In this state they will publicly lose touch with reality while beginning to speak as if some momentous event is imminent. They will become convinced that themselves and those they identify as their own are about to play a vital role in some earth-changing drama.


Full Glossary of terms.

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